RifleShooter Magazine editor Scott Rupp breaks down all the features of the Mossberg Patriot Predator rifle chambered in 6.5 PRC. How does the performance of the .17s compare with .22 caliber varmint cartridges? Available as a flat-base design or Maximum Expansion Factor (MEF) bullet, both provide super-fast velocities coupled with a very flat trajectory and sheer on-target energy transfer. REMINGTON Premier AccuTip-V: smallest group 13/16"; Varget loads for the .222 / .222 Magnum--- - benchrest.com At that pressure level with A-2460, 50-grain bullets were fired at nearly 3,600 fps from the .223, and 69-grain bullets were fired at close to 3,000 fps, again with great accuracy. The new Sako Finnlight II sports an innovative stock and Cerakote metal paired with the terrific 85 action. The early models were chambered in a suite of cartridges that covered the American hunters needs. Welcome to ACCURATE RELOADING Powder and charge in grains: 70.7 grains of H1000 for 168s, 69.0 grains with 180s. 15 yards isn't much of a test for accuracy. Throwback Thursday: 5 Good .223 Remington Loads Loading 40 grains each of the three 4350s with Sierra 100-grain GameKing bullets in a .243 Winchester rifle. Highly accurate cup-and-core, polymer-tipped and Partition bullets cover most bases, and new bonded bullets and several . Then there are always the cases from fired factory loads. Years ago, a friend who worked at Remington informed me that more Model 700 rifles in .17 Rem. After firing many rounds through a Marlin Model 336, I have to say that LVR is far and away the best powder for this cartridge, but there are several other propellants that also work well. Never seen anything like that before! 100 yard groups running from .5 minute of angle (MOA) to .9375 MOA and He called it the .17 Pee Wee and built a dramatically scaled-down 1917 Enfield action specifically for it. the problem. Hornady Manufacturing Company load data in .17 Rem. Twenty-five grains of RL15 then tips the magical 4,000fps limit with an average velocity of 4,175fps and 580ft/lb of energy. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. (See the article Compared: .17 HMR Varmint Ammunition for more details about .17 HMR ammo.). HORNADY Varmint Express: smallest group 5/8"; largest Only a few other powders can beat that. exceeded its published MV by 59 fps, the Hornady Varmint Express ammo other loads were chronographed from a Ruger 77/17VMBBZ. Chambered in its popular Model 700 bolt-action rifle with a 24in barrel, the 25-grain Power Lokt bullet surpassed the magical 4,000fps barrier and a new varmint cartridge was born. HORNADY Varmint Express: high 2698 fps; low 2621 fps; When it comes down to velocity, the .17 Rem. The smallest cartridge was the .25-35 Winchester, which preceded the .30-30 Winchester by a few months, both of which were introduced in 1895. All shooting with our five .17 HMR rifles was done at Thats as fast as any powder has shot that bullet weight from my 7mm Magnum. Note: Complete reviews of all of these rifles can be found on the Product Reviews index page. .17 rimfire rifles are normally tested with a good quality telescopic sight set at a magnification of nine power or higher. also used in CCI and Remington factory loads. and 28-degree shoulder. As with the 6.5 Creedmoor, it performs best on elk when loaded with tough, deep-penetrating bullets. Moving to bigger cartridges, when the Hornady 20-grain V-Max exits the .17 Rem. 6.5 Creedmoor vs. 6.5 PRC: Which is Better? 17 Remington Likes Dislikes - Trapperman Forums .17-Caliber Reloading Data and History for 5 Cartridges Cartridge Use & HistoryThe .17 Remington was introduced in 1971 by Remington Arms Company for their model 700 rifles.It is based on the .223 Remington case necked down to .172 in (4.37 mm), with the shoulder moved back. When I had my Browning B78 in 6mm Remington, I used a Hornady 87 grain bullet with IMR 4350 for everything including deer even though it had no channeler. The 260 has become very popular in sniper shooting competitions. Berger bullet You must log in or register to reply here. 77/17VMBBZ, Savage A17 and Savage Model 93R17-BVSS). If so, look no further than the .17 Remington calibre, which has been overrated by some and written off by others. Picked up a nice CZ 527 varmint a month ago. Remington brass and the Federal 205M primer were used in all the following loads. This result is almost unheard To achieve a balance between keeping the bullet together on firing while travelling up the bore, the bullet actually has to be tough around the jacket and therefore the tip is really the only area that can be fragile to initiate expansion. The 6.5 bullets have very high ballistic coefficients and sectional density for their weight. grain Speer TNT JHP bullet at a claimed MV of 2550 fps and ME of 245 17 Remington 20 Caliber: 20 Vartag 20 Vartag Turbo 22 Rim Fire: Testing The Effects Of The Hoen 4000 Plus Barrel Tuner On .22 Rimfire Accuracy Walther KK200 With Different Ammo At 50 and 100 Yards 22 Rim Fire Ammo Test If looking to acquire an automated powder-charge dispensing unit to speed up precision reloading, don't judge the RCBS ChargeMaster Lite powder scale and dispenser by its name; the Little Green machine packs a heavy-weight punch with speed and accuracy. can also be quite accurate. Dimensional differences between the two cases are so slight that load data for the two are interchangeable. All rights reserved. most accurate 41 rem mag loads - Gunloads.com You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum air movement in the hills and it does enlarge .17 HMR groups. We manufacture Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition and much more. Velocity was instrumental 15 feet ahead of the muzzle. Favorite loads for your .17 Remington - PredatorMasters Forums Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at Log In ] Predator Masters Home Forums Hunting Reloading & Ammo Favorite loads for your .17 Remington Register User Forum List Calendar Active Topics FAQ Who's Online Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Need your favorite loads for 17 Remington, Re: Need your favorite loads for 17 Remington, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Greetings. Available in different sizes and red dot ready, it'll fit your needs, whatever they are. smaller (3-5/16" diameter) bullseyes on each target, which we thought The 17 Rem. Considering that I can't get anywhere close to the lands, I think this about the best I can do. Primer: CCI250 for 168s, Fed215M for the 180s. The home of Shooting Times, Sporting Gun and Airgun Shooter. Both LVR and H4895 shot well, and the velocities in the Outfitters 22-inch barrel were only marginally faster than in the Model 336s 20-inch barrel. We fired 10 shots per load over the Guns Joseph Von Benedikt is with Rafe Nielsen of Browning to take a look at a new X-Bolt series rifle. You need initial penetration before expansion within the vital area otherwise nasty surface wounds are all that prevail, and therefore I would stick to 20 grain or even 25 grain as a minimum for foxes (unless very close) and 15 grain to 18 grain for rabbits. .17 Rimfire Rifle Accuracy Test Results - CHUCKHAWKS.COM Just load it up with some carefully prepared handloads, shoot it, and have fun. Head to Head: .17 Hornet vs. .17 Remington - An Official Journal Of The NRA The CCI A17 load uses a 17 grain Varmint Tip bullet at a claimed MV of 2650 fps and ME of 264 ft. lbs. Loading the .17 is really good fun and today there are enough good bullet manufacturers producing high-quality bullets to get the best from the calibre. The .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire (.17 HMR) cartridge is based on a .22 WMR case necked down to accept .17 caliber bullets. Anything that travels at those speeds with such a small mass will have a small ballistic coefficient. Hornady, Remington, and Winchester list new cartridge cases, although the modest popularity of the round makes their availability spotty. Re: 17 Remington Load Data. * We tested two different Marlin Model 917VS and Ruger K77/17VMBBZ rifles. A decrease in body taper gained back some of the capacity loss, but its gross water capacity is still about one grain less than for Ackleys version. In the .25-06, Hornady 75-grain V-MAX bullets topped out at 3,508 fps with 56.5 grains of the powder. Accurate Arms was incorporated in McEwen, Tennessee, in 1980, after several years of selling surplus powders from the U.S. government. Hornady offers a Varmint Express load using a 17 grain The CZ 7.62x39 grouped three Hornady 123-grain Spire Point bullets in .69 inch with LT-32 and into 1.05 inches shooting LT-30. Range Report - Most accurate 223/5.56 factory ammo brand from CCI, Federal, Hornady and Remington, the brands of ammunition most Chamfer and deburr the mouth of the case, run it through the full-length resizing die and the case is ready for fire forming with a reduced powder charge (I use a 20-grain bullet seated over 11.0 grains of H4198). In a precision-built rifle with a good barrel, the .17 Rem. At 100 yards there is still a healthy 3,389fps velocity and 638ft/lb striking energy that is more than enough for humane despatches. Test handloads for the .35 Remington were assembled with Hornady dies and shellholder No. all five .17 HMR loads delivered significantly higher After looking at load data for the 17 Mach IV and looking at Quickload, it seems something in the burn rate of IMR 4198, Vihta Vuori N110, Alliant 2400, Alliant Reloader 7, Hodgdon Lil'Gun, Alliant Blue Dot, and IMR 4227 would meet the requirement. 35 Remington Load Data - Shooting Times Stepping up to 24 grain yields a considerable jump in velocity to 3,944fps and 518ft/lb energy. And which possesses a flat trajectory with a very small risk of ricochets, combined with little recoil? I really need to work up a load with some TAC. | Loads are also listed for the .219 Zipper and .225 Winchester, which are rarely seen in the varmint fields these days. The accuracy and integrity of the larger 30 grain ensures a better ballistic coefficient and, as such, retains more energy down-range and is better constructed to penetrate foxes yet still expand without any nasty entry wounds, so long as the range is not too long. consisted of 5-shot groups at 100 yards. The .223 Remington is America's favorite cartridge according to rifle and ammunition sales. First Focal Plane vs. Second Focal Plane Scopes Explained: Which is Best? Any hot/accurate 7mm-08 loads? | 2 Cool Fishing Forum Beyond that distance, the Swift was the clear winner at bucking wind and dropping whistle pigs in mid-munch. Best powders Case length for the .280 is 2.540 inches (same as the .270) and a bit longer than the .30-06 (2.494 inches). Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Ive loaded A-2495 in the .243 Winchester shooting 70-grain bullets. The .35 Rem. That total does not include practice, The early 1900s were an important period for cartridge development. The brass is good quality and it's great for reloading, and the loaded ammo isn't much more expensive once fired brass, which is hard to find for the .22 Hornet. varmint bullet at a MV of 2550 fps and ME of 245 ft. lbs. Because When both are loaded to maximum chamber pressures and fired in barrels of the same length, the Ackley cartridge is about 100 fps faster. Eugene, Oregon. The .223 is inexpensive, easy to use well, low recoiling, and often very accurate even with military ball-type ammunition. Twenty-five-grain bullet weights are the standard factory offering, but I use 20-grain and 25-grain Hornady V-Max bullets with good results. One is the Marlin Model 336 lever action (made in 1975). This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. It's interesting to see actual velocity figures for 100 yards with the 17 Grain V-MAX bullet at a catalog MV of 2550 fps. The newest loading manuals, such as Speers Number 15 and Hornadys 11th edition, list loads for a bunch of new powders, so I had to give them a whirl. I calculated the .17 HMR Rifles: The 8 Best Picks on the Market - Wide Open Spaces Accuracy, again, is phenomenal, 0.5in or better at 100 yards. Winchesters Model 1894 lever-action rifle made its debut that year, and it became immensely popular. CCI's published 100 yard velocity/energy figures for this load are 2050 fps and 159 ft. lbs. Standard Large Rifle primers are perfectly adequate for the .35 Rem., as most powder charges are in the 40- to 45-grains range. Ackley and others began developing centerfire cartridges smaller than .22 caliber soon after the end of World War II, and they really got busy during the 1950s. All recorded groups are fired from a solid bench rest at an outdoor rifle range. Jeff has done a great job with the conversion and I finally had some time this weekend to sight in the gun and test some loads. If not, the bullet comes apart in the barrel or on the way to the target. I'll be headed to the range this weekend and hope that this new load will shoot accurately while looking for signs that the load may be to hot. 17 Fireball accuracy - Saubier.com Give a Gift If this is the situation with the Model 336 at hand, the simple solution is to trim the cases about 0.010 inch shorter than the trim length noted earlier. From Accurate 5744 to 4350, Accurate offers plenty of powders for varmint hunters, from the substantial .25-06 down to the pocket- sized .17 Fireball. I'm shooting 24.5gr/IMR-4320 still shooting some Rem 25gr bullets. Joseph Von Benedikt is with Jorge Spat to learn all about it. barrel, the rifle for which this load was specifically designed. The Federal Premium V-Shok load we tested uses a 17 I've had several 17's since 1977 and 3031 has produced good performance in all of them. I recall wondering if close examination would have revealed several .375-inch holes the bears hide. This concludes with an average overall group size for all types of ammunition. Absolutely uncanny.. H-4350 shot the bullets 98 fps faster than Accurate and 43 fps faster than IMR. Some burn cleaner, some have better load densities, but RL15 stands out as the best in my gun yours may well be different. AVERAGE GROUP SIZE WITH MOST ACCURATE BRAND OF AMMUNITION. Sighted-in about 2 inches high at 100 yards, the FTX load hits only 1 inch low at 200 yards. That load will print right at 2.25" at 100 yards with me in the Creedmore position. For called-in coyotes, I switch to the 30-grain Berger, but I prefer the 25-grain V-Max for longer shots. In an attempt to eliminate as much Certainly, it was the most This short-cut, single-base extruded rifle powder competes with H-4350 and IMR-4350. It may be a touch too slow burning for the .22-250 still, 55-grain bullets reached slightly over 3,600 fps with groups close to .5 inch. 7mm Remington Magnum (Pet Loads) | Handloader Magazine measured group sizes. We will continue to update this list as new rifles are reviewed and additional data becomes available. Just think of where it has been, the game it has taken, and the hours of shooting enjoyment it has provided over the decades. placed at a distance of 10 feet from the muzzle of the test rifle. Ultimately we fired a total of over 80 groups and 400+ Same goes for the Mach IV and Fireball, although the velocity difference between the two bullet weights is less in them. COL @ 1.800" snowpro440 Silver $$ Contributor Feb 12, 2016 #9 I use H4198 in my .17 Fireball and a 25gr. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. In 1987, Accurate Arms started to move away from the surplus market and began selling newly manufactured propellants. AVERAGE GROUP SIZE WITH MOST ACCURATE BRAND OF AMMUNITION. Norma 17 Remington brass - Saubier.com My gun likes alot of jump to the lands. The distances at which the bullets still have 1,000 ft-lbs of retained energy is 265 yards for the FTX and 175 yards for the roundnose. is rather low, at 33,500 psi, so the case is rather lightly constructed. The riflescopes It has a 22-inch barrel with a 1:14 twist, and it wears is a Traditions 3-9X 40mm scope. The 25 gr. five .17 HMR loads. The lighter bullet can be boosted by 46.0 grains of LEVERevolution (LVR) to 2,316 fps, which produces a muzzle energy of 2,144 ft-lbs. I never used RL19, so I have no . The Berger reloading manual shows the exact same maximum powder charge weights for both. 17 Rem. load request | Varmint Hunters Forum Future Publishing Limited Quay House, The Ambury, Bath BA1 1UA. at 3,800 fps has close to the same trajectory. The most accurate 1911 .45acp load you have tried? - 1911Forum The one I have now is a SAKO A1. IMR 4064 is a medium-range burn speed powder and is one of the most versatile propellant in the IMR line, used for 223 Remington, 22-250 Remington, 220 Swift, 6mm Remington, 243 Winchester Super Short Magnum, 308 Winchester, 338 Winchester Magnum, and the list goes on and on. (Ret.) However, there is always some Both bullets have been pretty accurate with a little load work up. The chronograph was Neither the author nor Outdoor Sportsman Group assumes any liability for accidents or injury resulting from the use or misuse of this data. Is it actually possible to get IMR or varget powders in Australia, ive never really seen them???? If my 57-year-old eyes are clear that day. Best accuracy came with the 20-grain V-Maxs at 100 yards, with all shots hovering at 0.45in. This single-base, extruded powder was developed for the .308 Winchester. claimed MV of 2650 fps and ME of 264 ft. lbs. This was before coyotes invaded the East and decimated the groundhog population, so we accounted for our share of them. Uniform case lengths aid this process. Walther's new Performance Duty Pistol is ready for both concealed carry and conventional service situations. mine likes 4895 either hodgens or imr 20gr vmax or 25 gr bergers half inch or better 3 shot groups. I got to know Ackley while he was doing some rifle work for me during the 1960s and 70s. These bullets fired slightly at a velocity above 1,600 fps are pretty much at full-power from the Marlins 18.5-inch barrel stiff recoil verified it. Accurate 2460 shot 20- and 25-grain bullets a good 250 fps faster than other powders loaded in the .17 Fireball, and with great accuracy. human error as possible, the rifles were fired from the range's heavy Remington 7 1/2. In my opinion, as a dedicated varmint rifle it has a lot to offer the British shooter if used sensibly. Plus, these fine-grained powders metered well. Handloading the .222 Remington | Handloader Magazine Last edited by obaro; 04/10/20 09:18 AM. The .17 Winchester Super Magnum (.17 WSM) is based on a Winchester .270 commercial nail gun case necked down to accept .17 caliber bullets. Shooting reloads may void any warranty on your firearm. Additionally, ammunition for the .17 HMR is often somewhat cheaper, too; for instance, MidwayUSA lists loads priced from $10.99 to $14.99 per fifty-round package, with the leadless options comprising the . The 20-grain bullet can be pushed to over 4200 fps, and the 25-grain bullet breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well. The The 260 Remington is essentially the old wildcated 6.5-08, a 308 necked down to the .264 bullet. Notes: This data was shot by Brian Pearce, Wolfe Publishing Company. I once shot a nice 8-point whitetail buck at about 40 yards with the 220-grain SPFN, and it was a dramatic deer-drop. This translates to poor retained energy figures down-range. : 2.150" Powder: 24.1 gr 25.9 gr Vel. Nov 26, 2017. Reloading Data .17 Remington (Using Hornady Bullets) Metallic - Load Data First, a bit of background history. I've used IMR 4350 and IMR 4831. V-MAX bullet at a MV of 2550 fps and ME of 245 ft. lbs. As A-2230s name implies, its designed around the .223 Remington. Westerns data guide lists A-2200 loads for the .17 Hornet, .223 Remington, 6mm PPC and 6mm BR. We are running a top end load so START low and work up!!!. Accurate Shooter Forum and Daily Bulletin Gun Blog. of Israeli Defense Forces, joins David Fortier for an exclusive interview for Shotgun News. Most .17 caliber bullets are much lighter than those of .22 caliber, and that makes them greatly dependent on high velocities for quick kills on varmints. These were usually 17 grain varmint hunting loads Similarly, the 18-grain bullet, setting off at the same velocity of 4,300fps, has a greater energy figure of 739ft/lb and at 100 yards has dropped to 3,158fps and 398ft/lb, better than the 15 grain but not much. rounds of ammunition for record. Accurates powders hung in limbo for some time, overshadowed by Alliant, Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders until Western bought Accurate in 2005. Those are not huge differences in bullet drop and drift between the two bullet diameters, although the .22s do deliver more energy to the target. 7,024. Norma 200, 55gr. That pair shot five bullets well under .5 inch the best the old Swift rifle has shot any load. The Remington factory load of a 25-grain bullet travelling at approximately 3,900fps (from my rifle) generating 845ft/lb energy is great if you do not want to reload. This American-made, double-base spherical powder is a slower derivative of A-2230. The catalog 100 yard velocity is 1900 fps and the 100 yard LT-32, loaded in the .223, shot a five-shot group that measured .54 inch with Nosler 69-grain HPBT bullets and .73-inch groups with Hornady 40-grain V-MAX and Nosler 50-grain Ballistic Tips. Powder shortages over the last few years have also aided Accurates acceptance, as handloaders turned to alternatives for unavailable favorites. In the .257 Ackley Improved, the powder shot Sierra 100-grain Pro-Hunter bullets at 3,018 fps. This is still capable of cleanly killing a fox. Nov 2, 2020. Ackley created his first .17 caliber wildcat by necking down the .30 Carbine case. this is the loads tested today: H4198 - 4 shot groups at 100 yds . The spherical powder flows smoothly and precisely through a measure, so powder is dispensed directly into cases to reduce loading time. It may seem odd that a cartridge shooting fat, heavy bullets at moderate velocities would still be popular 116 years after its introduction. became obvious that we were also, unavoidably, testing the ammunition Five loads with A-4064 and 40-, 50- and 55-grain bullets in the .22-250 averaged .68 inch for five-shot groups. Federal has created a safer, easier and more reliable way to shoot a muzzleloader. I am sure Paper_Sniper: The load I am about to relay to you has been exceptionally accurate in several 223 Remington Varmint type Rifles I own. .17 Remington - Published Manufacturer Loading Data Shellholders: Hornady #16 Lee #4 Lyman #26 RCBS #10 Recipe Type: Bullet Weight: Recipe Source: Starting Max Source 15.5 gr NTX (HDY) 0.172" Powder: Benchmark (Hodgdon) Primer: REM 7 Case: REM Trim Length: 1.786" C.O.L. the .17 HMR cartridge is very susceptible to the effects of wind, we For my money, the best all-round bullets for the .35 Rem. #9. h1000, 160gr AB's, fed215's and good brass will get you what your looking for. Remember, the above accuracy results are averages with all brands of ammunition tested. .17 HMR ammunition is pretty darn good! And it was even chambered in the Winchester Model 70 bolt action, the Marlin Model 336 lever action, the Mossberg Model 479, the Savage Model 170 pump gun, and the Traditions Performance Firearms Outfitter G2 break-action single shot. This bullet is a plastic-tip, boat-tail design that is 25, 50, 100, and 200 yards, but all of our shooting for record was done As with any reloading project, after charging the cases, it is prudent to shine a flashlight into each and every case to see that they all have powder in them and that the powder is at the same level. 17 REMINGTON 17 REMINGTON The following data was developed in a Sako A1 rifle. It is a reliable slayer of white-tailed deer and black bear at the moderate ranges at which these species are taken, it has plenty of power for the job, and it is adequately accurate for these hunting chores. Tried a couple of mid range loads and velocity was way high for the loads. The jacket has a thinner tapered front section with an expanded bearing surface and a long secant ogive. (Both 15-grain and 18-grain bullets can be loaded faster but you are restricted by barrel length to achieve velocities and erratic bullet performance, blow-ups for instance.). All this gives the FTX a higher ballistic coefficient of .300 versus .195 for a roundnose bullet of the same weight. H4350 Vs Imr4350beretta cheetah vs walther ppk; how to tell if someone Powder charges dispense precisely from a powder measure, cutting down on the time loading .223s for the spring gopher campaign. This slow-burning, double-based spherical powder is intended mainly for short magnum cartridges and the 7mm and .300 belted magnums. The maximum COL is 2.525 inches, but I have found that sticking to an even 2.5 inches seems to work best. Jun 13, 2012. This means the reloader must exercise care when resizing cases. They just blow up! My CZ 527 7.62x39 is a favorite for stalking marmots in the spring. Velocity 3025 with 168s, 2975 with 180s. Now we are getting somewhere and all the pressure signs are good. .22-250 Remington (Pet Loads) | Handloader Magazine Standard Large Rifle primers are perfectly adequate for the .35 Rem., as most powder charges are in the 40- to 45-grains range. 10 MPH crosswind this bullet will drift 3.3" laterally at 100 yards and The first three were rimless versions of the Winchester cartridges, with slight dimensional changes, and had 0.421-inch rims. Hammer Bullets' 18 grain Dead Blow is another excellent nontoxic (California compliant) option milled from a single piece of copper. 70 and a sako vixen is: Rem case , cci bencrest pr., 21.2 gr. 223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com England and Wales company registration number 2008885. Madison, Wi. Moving up in powder capacity, the .17 Mach IV was introduced during the 1960s by Las Vegas gunsmith Vern OBrien, whose custom rifles were on the dainty Sako L46 action. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. The Best .17 HMR Rifles | American Firearms gave us the best aiming precision. 22 gr of Xbr 8208 was 4050, 23 of varget was 4100. Loads for the 17 remington??? - Long Range Hunting Forum Remington surprised everyone by legitimising the .17 by not domesticating the .17/223 cartridge, as expected, but by using the .223 case and pushing the shoulder back, therefore producing a longer neck. 17 Remington Load Data - 24hourcampfire I also use Berger bullets, which offer weights from 15-grain, 18-grain, 20-grain, 22-grain and 25-grain bullets, with two heavier bullets of 30 grain and 37 grain. Compared: .17 HMR Varmint Ammunition - CHUCKHAWKS.COM Its not the flattest-shooting varmint combination, but the whole idea is to crawl within 150 yards of marmots sunning on big boulders. In those days, Winchester had the edge on the market with the popular Model 1984 and its fleet of cartridges. Incidentally, in a At longer ranges past 200 yards the 30-grain bullets do not always expand predictably, so take note.