(function() { But facts is facts, Im afraid, and no amount of neo-Marxist leftist postmodern suggestion that social science is a patriarchal construction is going to make the ugly truth disappear: Men and women are similar. Adam McCulloch is a freelance writer and production editor who has worked in sectors including travel (The Guardian), aviation (Flight International), agriculture (Farmers' Weekly), music (Jazzwise), theatre (The Stage) and social work (Community Care). John, author here. OHW+ However, the differences that do exist are large enough so that they play an importance role in determining or at least affecting important life outcomes, such as occupational choice. But are Petersons criticisms really just skating across the surface, failing to take account of the true nature and potential of such work? They say he has failed to take account of the historical changes in gender roles or business and employees desire for fairness through equality of opportunity. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism - YouTube. None of those who commented in the piece regard him as a monster. So they actually help his case. I pointed out it wasnt particularly diverse. And, sometimes, in order to achieve equality, its necessary to be unfair thats because much inequality derives from past unfairness.. All English Franais. Diversity largely seems to be code for anyone but a white heterosexual male, and we can see in the article that its okay to be unfair in the pursuit of equality. The data shows eight in 10 companies pay male employees more, and some companies pay the men twice as much as women on average. Men are less agreeable (more competitive, harsher, tough-minded, skeptical, unsympathetic, critically-minded, independent, stubborn). The interviewer seemed eager to impute to Peterson a belief that a large, extant wage gap between men and women is a "fact of life" that women should just "put up with," though all those. (Not just Peterson, this has been observed by others as well, not least of all by an ex diversity hire by Apple. The other six trips were part of my 12 Rules for Life tour, which has now covered 100 cities. . The RAD Awards I think a diversity of views is very healthy and can prompt a meaningful and helpful open discussion. Doug, separating fact from opinion is sometimes quite hard, particularly when both parties to a debate are using research findings, sometimes the same research findings! These different choices men and women make are at the heart of the debate over the gender pay gap. That's the message Jordan Peterson tried to get across when speaking to "60 Minutes." HR practitioners should listen to his arguments and be prepared to defend their corner with the best evidence they can find to support the view that fairer recruitment policies make business sense and benefit us all. In short, he is saying that correlation does not mean causali. Weve already seen that in Scandinavia. The tide is turning. Well, the traits mentioned here certainly have relevance to the success of a TEAM, but its hard to see how they specifically have to do with the discipline of engineering. However, thats not exactly what he said and, as he never tires of telling us, hes, Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. It's the question keeping women and diversity advocates up at night, and one outspoken academic supposedly has the answer - we can't. Jordan B Peterson, clinical psychologist and author of self-help book 12 Rules for Life, believes there are too many differences between male and female brains for women to ever achieve equal standing across every . Over the last five decades or so, psychologists have aggregated great numbers of personality trait features, using adjectives, phrases and sentences, throwing virtually every descriptor contained in human language into the mix, in a remarkably atheoretical manner. ); I was wondering what everyone thought about this recent debate Jordan Peterson had on the television show - "Channel 4 News" Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&t=70s 4 63 63 comments Best Add a Comment With a vast online audience for his views, the sector needs to respond with hard facts and strong arguments, writes Adam McCulloch. Women have to get the major pieces of their life put together faster than men.. window.mc4wp = window.mc4wp || { Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. And void of objective evidence that those belief systems are coloring my work-related behavior or impacting my organization (in which case there are ample laws allowing for my dismissal and protecting my employer from my behaviors) its not my employers business. Thats why the conversation is so important. This is a view shared by a small but vocal coalition of rightwing think tanks, Jordan Peterson, and mens rights activists. These two glaring omissions that the pay gap is between mothers and fathers rather than between women and men, and that the reason it exists is due to the different choices men and women make regarding work and family make the "60 Minutes" program a complete sham. https://goo.gl/UrK6aq Peterson ascribes this gender imbalance to innate differences between men and women. See below for a distribution chart. But paying women less is inevitable, because there are inherent differences between men and womens labour: the primary one being childcare. There were women going to school for engineering when I went and theyre going now. These of course would override any sort of group preference in determining what sort of work one enters into, although its significant to note the acknowledgement of a field as being womens work, suggesting that there are particular qualities of the job that women are innately drawn towards. Suzanne Venker (@SuzanneVenker) is a contributor to the Washington Examiner's Beltway Confidential blog. of African Americans is lower because of skin color. https://goo.gl/3t4SHw You can reduce bias by some fairly simple means: getting people to evaluate several CVs at the same time taking each criterion in turn; taking the names off CVs; when conducting appraisals setting an objective of accuracy., Another stout defence of unconscious bias work comes from Jane Farrell, chief executive of the EW Group. A theme of the article was fairness and being able to identify the best candidates. Over the last few weeks, I have been in Oslo, twice; Helsinki, twice; Stockholm, twice; and Copenhagen, once. But Peterson noted that not only will the policy fail from an economic perspective, it dismisses male and female nature, which is "intractable." But these fans had nevertheless extracted from his work a view of the world that seemed to justify their behaviour. To close their pay gaps, companies should ensure women are on shortlists for senior roles, be transparent about pay and promotions, and encourage men to take shared parental leave, according to government guidance. He says:The HR equity people are mucking about with peoples unconscious bias. Cathy Newman interviews Jordan Peterson on Channel 4 News video, science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM) workforce, Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC). https://lnkd.in/dShtnhj it's not exactly a debate but absolutely worth watching #debateskills These could have been the words of Peterson himself: so its unsurprising when Damore acknowledges he is a big fan of the professor. Im allowed to be a racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobe, etc. Something approaching a consensus among psychologists expert in measurement, known as psychometricians (or, less technically, as personality psychologists). https://goo.gl/bsYhvf Most women just aren't interested in careers that consume their lives. The possibility of identifying a competent person increases as the pool of available candidates increases. The answer: the more egalitarian and wealthier the country, the larger the differences between men and women in temperament and in interest. { But it's hard to quantify the effect of one's work with human beings. Just this year, in fact, the National Bureau of Economic Research published a study that showed the gender gap. One of the trips to Stockholm was limited to press interviews and television (see here). The Swedish research I refer to in the article about STEM subjects is really interesting theres a hyperlink to it. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Hey everyone! content language. Peterson would be a better model for HR- take responsibility, tell the truth and say no to Marxism. Some employees at UBS face long-term cuts to their bonuses after maternity leave, while research by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found many British employers believe women take advantage of their pregnancy and have worrying attitudes towards unlawful behaviour when it comes to recruiting women. I said it doesnt exist because of gender.. The gender pay gap does not exist because men and women are paid less for the same jobs, it exists because men and women tend to do slightly different jobs. Men and women are not the same and wont be the same, but that doesnt mean women shouldnt be treated fairly., There are other reasons why equality is unattainable, Peterson explains: Many women around the age of between 28 and 32, have a career-family crisis that they have to deal with. Kandola says that Peterson has misrepresented IAT, which has proved useful, particularly in racial stereotyping. Jordan Peterson defends ancient truths with science and fact. The whole unconscious bias agenda, he says, is part of the broader corruption of social psychology. Tens of thousands of people have participated in them. Its actually a fatal problem, for a particular political view. Like the Universities, HR is a corrupt institution, which is actively working for the destruction of Western Civilization. According to ONS data from 2015, women still perform the bulk of unpaid domestic work, including childcare, laundry and housework. According to Rob Briner, professor of organisational psychology at Queen Mary University of London, Peterson makes several points that HR leaders should heed. In Stockholm, I concentrated more on what has come to be known as the gender paradox. Here is the paradox in a nutshell: as societies become more gender-equal in their social and political policies, men and women become more different in certain aspects, rather than more similar. See https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-We-Really-Measure-Implicit/238807 He would suggest that the IAT, the election of Trump, and the not only the differences in employment choices in Scandinavia, but also the relatively small number of women looking to take leadership positions in politics in those countries, are the result of what happens when the playing field is leveled through societal constructs. Peterson habe die Gender Science" fehlreprsentiert, indem er die Belege dafr abgewiesen habe, dass das Verhltnis zwischen Gender und Biologie" nicht absolut sei. on: function(evt, cb) { Testing without a commitment to follow-up support for individuals is another serious issue to be dealt with. . The reason that you cant see it in an article is that its complicated, and way more complicated than anyone is really able to boil down. But it was a mistake of unforgivable magnitude and here are some of the reasons why: Given that only 26% of the elected MPs were women, the selection of half the cabinet from this pool means that it is a statistical certainty that the cabinet members chosen were not the most competent available. Using an unfair solution to create equality will cause more division. You have a better chance without the IAT, because its probably junk. ", When the interviewer asked him why jobs that involve working with people can't be measured alongside jobs that involve working with things, Peterson correctly noted that work which is relationship-oriented nursing, teaching, child care, elder care isn't "scalable.". Another myth says the gender pay gap is inevitable as women choose lower-paid jobs because of fixed biological traits. of Asians. If I did not have children, I would be at my office from 8 a.m.-5 p.m. every day, thus mirroring John's life. In any case, I believe very strongly that Damore is being scapegoated for expressing his opinions that how HR wants engineers to staff their teams is in-congruent with the job as he understands it. Lets even assume (which I dont) that much of this is accrued unfairly by straight white men, as the identity politics players, such as our Prime Minister, self-righteously and vociferously insist. Maybe he was just ignoring rubbish based pseudo-science. First, if the critics are claiming that the 80% number means that when men and women with the exact same skills and experience and preferences do the exact same work that women get paid 80 cents for every dollar men do, they are wrong. He amplifies Bhayanis point that testing without action is pointless, adding that fairness has become an important goal: Fairness means a lot. Where is the high profile CIPD campaign to encourage more men into HR ? This is true, cross-culturally. So one way of looking at it may be that given most of the predictors of success in business or politics are traditionally seen as male, then if a woman is simply allowed to be female (by regulating behavior in the workplace, having quotas for women on BODs, or allowing for generous paid leave for family rearing), women MAY be MORE LIKELY to disengage from these pursuits, and more likely to raise a family or take on part time jobs, or low paying jobs with flexible schedules. Just like any other productive venture its about competence first and foremost. And thats why the information that I publicized in Scandinavia caused a scandal that continues to reverberate. Basically if you change the name on the application form you change the outcome.. Like many civil rights movements, it's had its beneficial effects. And there are going to be differences in economic outcome associated with this variance. Those who adopt this viewpoint, despite its apparent logical impossibility, maintain that we must redouble our efforts to socialize little boys and girls in exactly the same mannerrendering all toys gender-neutral, questioning even the idea of gender identity itselfand believe that such maneuvering will finally bring us to the ideal utopia, where every occupation and every strata of authority within every occupation is manned (so to speak) by 50% men and 50% women. So this interview seems to have exploded in popularity in the last couple of days,even spawning memes about the way Cathy Newman handled the conversation, so i decided to post here to see what you guys think about it. Is it truly unreasonable, therefore, to point out that the absolute poster boy for such privilege is none other than our Prime Minister, Justin Trudeaua man who dared run for the highest office in the land despite his utter lack of credentials (other than good looks, charm and a certain ability to behave properly in public) merely because his father, Pierre, turned the Trudeau name into the very epitome of status unearned by his sons? Jordan Peterson's view on the gender pay gap is that it's real and it's the consequence of many different variables. Engineering is mostly about problem solving and logical thinking. https://www.scribd.com/document/355823379/Google-s-Ideological-Echo-Chamber. How to reduce unconscious bias in recruiting, In other words, Peterson and Damore are simply arguing against change. Describe people every which way imaginable, and then use large samples and powerful statistics to sort out the resulting mess. Emma Griffin, professor of modern British history at the University of East Anglia, wrote a compelling account of how work was gendered and how these gender distinctions came to be seen as natural. One of the creators, and there were only three, has completely abandoned the project, because it is being used for purposes it was not designed for. Men also choose to have children but the impact on their careers is virtually non-existent. A whole bunch of equity industry participants complain that hes too persuasive, throw out stuff like unfairness if ok if it leads to the outcomes we want, and tell companies they need to double-down on their efforts to beat Social Equity opinions into their confused staff. TRANSCRIPT (29 mins) [00:02] Are the differences bigger in some countries and smaller in others? https://goo.gl/smtUHY Peterson himself is opposed to transactional sex, or indeed any sex outside of a committed monogamous relationship. In an interview at the time, Peterson mentioned "a great paper" showing that "as societies become more egalitarian, the enrollment gap between men and women in STEM fields increases." He added, "And what do the feminists say about that? Peterson mentioned women choose lower paying careers, but gaps still exists within most industries, including 66% lower earnings for female financial specialists, and 71% smaller incomes for female doctors (when age, education, race and hours were controlled). Peterson did not say that "the market is 80% controlled by women." Weve pulled together some of the most common myths to help you navigate the pay gap deniers. Peterson often misses the historical context, says Kandola, ignoring the fact that men and women have taken on very different roles in different eras men dominating nursing roles until Florence Nightingale helped to create a profession that was soon considered womens work. That is not to say that Peterson is right, this is just what is observable and provable statistically. He says the concept of race based on skin colour was developed in the West for the purpose of justifying the slave trade, so there is nothing natural about such bias, which Peterson implies when he talks about peoples preference for their inas opposed to outgroup and novelty aversion. If women do not try to negotiate for better pay aggressively, and are therefore not getting the pay they deserve then a gender pay gap exists. Seems there is an extreme reluctance to face some brute facts about the clear differences between men and women and their preferences when making work/life decisions. About the only way you could get me in to a Jordan Peterson talk would be to kidnap me and tie me to a chair in the audience. This is in keeping with their proclivity, also documented cross-culturally, to manifest higher rates of violence and antisocial or criminal behavior, such that incarceration rates for men vs women approximate 15:1. This allowed for many socioligical variables to be kept consistent. Even when men and women are most different in those cultures where they differ most, and along those trait dimensions where they differ most they are more similar than different. If they are forced to adopt traditionally male thoughts like aggressiveness, working at the expense of family, they are more likely to work their way up the political/business ladder. These are not small-scale studies (heres another, equally recent). As a male software engineer, Ive certainly been on teams that lack individuals with the strengths that women tend to have more of, but its hard to say what the proper ratio of empathetic individuals vs mechanically-minded individuals on an engineering team is. Earlier this year I rented an office in a building I now share with a man named John, a husband and father who sells insurance. If women do not try to negotiate for better pay aggressively, and are therefore not getting the pay they deserve then a gender pay gap exists. This article provided no such evidence (even some kind of evidence), just comments from people that get paid to assume the contrary conclusion to Peterson. It might also be pointed out that such a move is particularly appalling, given its source. We worked through the practical things that could be done differently to ensure they recruited the best. A couple of them, which well discuss, may well seem to be contradictory while others, have some degree of speculation and opinion that are ferociously debated within the confines of academia. Some health gurus and wellness instructors promoted lifestyle adjustments and self-care to prevent contracting the virus . Another approach would be to change the nature of the job to make it more friendly to women. Women are higher in negative emotion, or neuroticism. Women who have decided for a better work/life balance should realise that the payoff is just that; a better work/life balance, which is more valuable that the small financial price that is paid. I would be alarmed if the HR community felt the need to close him down just because he is saying things they dont like. Careers, say, in law or in medicine or in business or in politics, don't allow a person to work 9 a.m.-5 p.m. or less, and that's what most American mothers (a full 67 percent) want. But then there are comments such as this: CEOs should wake up and understand that HR is becoming an anti-capitalist fifth column in the middle of their organisations..